Wind turbines used to absorb a power surplus?...

[Ricky]

On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 8:11:23 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 19-Mar-23 9:07 am, Bob F wrote:
On 3/18/2023 2:46 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 19-Mar-23 3:31 am, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 22:17:53 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid
wrote:

On 18-Mar-23 8:39 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:
An electrician (who I don\'t believe) told me if there\'s too much power
on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra power. Is
this really true? Aren\'t there plenty of power stations they can just
turn down a bit? Take your foot off the gas so to speak?

I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install smart
meters into each home. And in the UK that comes from green tax.
Shouldn\'t that tax be being spent on making more green energy,
building
new wind farms?

Coal fired power stations cannot change their output rapidly, and
can be
willing to pay for the right to generate in preference to reducing
output.

So the windfarm notion is not entirely implausible. However, wind
turbines use electronics to match the turbine output to the grid
frequency, and it seems unlikely that it\'s designed to operate in
reverse for the relatively rare occasions that that would be used.

On balance, then, I doubt that using wind turbines as fans is real.

Sylvia.

If a steam plant makes too much power until it can throttle down, and
nobody wants the power, why not dump steam into the condenser?


I don\'t know what the technical issue is, but here in Australia, it\'s
not especially unusual for the spot electricity price to go negative
at night when coal plants don\'t want to reduce their output. If they
had another solution that didn\'t involve spending money, I\'m sure
they\'d use it.

That would be really nice for charging your car.


Though of course, the end user never sees a cent of this.

That\'s not true in the US. Many utility companies will bill you at different rates at night and day. I was on that for a while, but it was a bit of a PITA as to make it not cost more than the straight plan, I had to cut off my heat or A/C during peak times. I have settings in my thermostat, but I needed another couple of time points because I wanted to ramp up the temperature before cutting off the heat and likewise down the temperature before turning off the A/C.

In the summer, it is one period, from 3 pm to 7 pm. The temperature will definitely rise in four hours.

I know of a utility in PA, where they control your electric for heating. It\'s straight electric, but they have what looks vaguely like a radiator, full of bricks. This gets heated off peak, and keeps the place warm through the peak time. They get a break on the price of the electric.

--

Rick C.

++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rod Speed]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 09:07:55 +1100, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:

On 3/18/2023 2:46 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 19-Mar-23 3:31 am, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 22:17:53 +1100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid
wrote:

On 18-Mar-23 8:39 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:
An electrician (who I don\'t believe) told me if there\'s too much
power
on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra power.
Is
this really true? Aren\'t there plenty of power stations they can
just
turn down a bit? Take your foot off the gas so to speak?

I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install smart
meters into each home. And in the UK that comes from green tax.
Shouldn\'t that tax be being spent on making more green energy,
building
new wind farms?

Coal fired power stations cannot change their output rapidly, and can
be
willing to pay for the right to generate in preference to reducing
output.

So the windfarm notion is not entirely implausible. However, wind
turbines use electronics to match the turbine output to the grid
frequency, and it seems unlikely that it\'s designed to operate in
reverse for the relatively rare occasions that that would be used.

On balance, then, I doubt that using wind turbines as fans is real.

Sylvia.

If a steam plant makes too much power until it can throttle down, and
nobody wants the power, why not dump steam into the condenser?

I don\'t know what the technical issue is, but here in Australia, it\'s
not especially unusual for the spot electricity price to go negative at
night when coal plants don\'t want to reduce their output. If they had
another solution that didn\'t involve spending money, I\'m sure they\'d
use it.

That would be really nice for charging your car.

That\'s the spot price, not the retail price.

 

[Rod Speed]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 10:19:07 +1100, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 18 Mar 2023 21:51:20 +0000, alan_m
junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On 18/03/2023 19:09, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/18/2023 2:44 PM, alan_m wrote:
On 18/03/2023 17:34, Rod Speed wrote:

Ours are read 4 times a year and it takes a lot more than 30 seconds
to read.

Where I live it was more like once every two years. Knock on the door
with torch in hand, read the figures on two meters, figures entered in
hand held pad, goodbye.



Never heard or that long. Been once a month here for over 70 years
that
I know of. 30 seconds? Really? So five minutes for 10 houses. Try
it
and get back to us.

In which country is this once a month appearance by a meter reader?

The USA.

Here in the the UK in 40 years of house ownership I\'ve only had the
meter readers enter my property around 20 times. The water meter is
outside and read around twice a year (water and sewage bills are every 6
months but paid monthly by direct debit straight from my bank account).
I also pay for my electricity and gas by a monthly direct debit.

I was making the comparison about 15 minutes to fit a smart meter which
didn\'t include any allowance for travelling or picking the meter up from
a depot.

At the start of the day they load 35 meters into his truck, and give him
a list of houses close together, maybe right next to each other. They
plan to do all the houses asap so going one by one down the street is
the simplest way. (If they only do some, then the meter reader still
has to go there for the few houses that are left, and that itself is
inefficient.)

It take a minute to cut the lead-sealed metal strip that holds on the
old meter, a minute to take off the 10\" metal ring that holds the meter
to the base, a minute to pull the meter (10 seconds, really), 2 minutes
to take a new meter out of its box, remove the plastic covers to the 3
big tabs, and insert the meter into the base, a minute to replace the
ring, and a minute to attach a new lead band.

Nothing like that here, but its almost as easy to change the physical
meter.

We have two, one each for peak and off peak electricity.

That\'s 7 minutes.

Then a minute to enter the meter number (of the new meter) and the new
lead band number into the log, a minute to put the old meter into the
box the new meter came in, and 4 minutes to pick up the old meter and
walk back to the truck. That\'s 13 minutes.

Now, to get to the next address -- maybe it\'s next door -- and take
another meter from the back of the truck.

It\'s a like for like comparison about the meter reader only
taking 30 seconds from entering my property to leaving it having read
both the electricity and gas meters.

My estimate is realistic. I started with an hour until I remembered how
simple it is, that it\'s not necessary to cut the power to the house and
no wiring is required. It unplugs and plugs back in. I myself have
pulled a meter, removed the plastic covers from the tabs, and replaced
it. Took literally two minutes.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

søndag den 19. marts 2023 kl. 01.27.47 UTC+1 skrev Ricky:

On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 8:11:23 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 19-Mar-23 9:07 am, Bob F wrote:
On 3/18/2023 2:46 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 19-Mar-23 3:31 am, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 22:17:53 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid
wrote:

On 18-Mar-23 8:39 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:
An electrician (who I don\'t believe) told me if there\'s too much power
on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra power.. Is
this really true? Aren\'t there plenty of power stations they can just
turn down a bit? Take your foot off the gas so to speak?

I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install smart
meters into each home. And in the UK that comes from green tax.
Shouldn\'t that tax be being spent on making more green energy,
building
new wind farms?

Coal fired power stations cannot change their output rapidly, and
can be
willing to pay for the right to generate in preference to reducing
output.

So the windfarm notion is not entirely implausible. However, wind
turbines use electronics to match the turbine output to the grid
frequency, and it seems unlikely that it\'s designed to operate in
reverse for the relatively rare occasions that that would be used.

On balance, then, I doubt that using wind turbines as fans is real..

Sylvia.

If a steam plant makes too much power until it can throttle down, and
nobody wants the power, why not dump steam into the condenser?


I don\'t know what the technical issue is, but here in Australia, it\'s
not especially unusual for the spot electricity price to go negative
at night when coal plants don\'t want to reduce their output. If they
had another solution that didn\'t involve spending money, I\'m sure
they\'d use it.

That would be really nice for charging your car.


Though of course, the end user never sees a cent of this.

That\'s not true in the US. Many utility companies will bill you at different rates at night and day. I was on that for a while, but it was a bit of a PITA as to make it not cost more than the straight plan, I had to cut off my heat or A/C during peak times. I have settings in my thermostat, but I needed another couple of time points because I wanted to ramp up the temperature before cutting off the heat and likewise down the temperature before turning off the A/C.

here you can get a plan where your price is set every hour by the current price of electricity,

 

[alan_m]

On 18/03/2023 19:56, Rod Speed wrote:

alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Ours are read 4 times a year and it takes a lot more than 30 seconds
to read.

Where I live it was more like once every two years.

Knock on the door

Our meter boxes are all on an outside wall of the house.

In the UK there is a mix, around my way outside for most newer
properties or often when houses have been converted to flats.
Along my road most houses have their electricity and gas meter inside
the house with no external meter box.

Smart meters are not compulsory and many people have refused the offer
to have them fitted. There has been quite a lot of adverse publicity
recently surrounding smart meters. With energy prices doubling many
hundreds of thousands are struggling paying for their energy. The energy
companies have been programming smart meters to become pre-payment
meters overnight for these people. This is not just more inconvenient
but a more expensive way of pay for energy - although the price
difference compared to us who pay by direct debit will end in July this
year.

There is also a mix of metered and un-metered water. In general, new
builds require a water meter but for older properties the owner can
request one which remains in place for subsequent owners. Again
generalising, if the number of people occupying the property is less
than the number of bedrooms in the property there is likely to be a
large saving in water and sewage charges based on the meter reading so
for many there is an incentive to request a water meter.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

 

[a a]

>

Yet one more #veryStupidByLowIQaa post.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 19-Mar-23 4:01 am, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

lørdag den 18. marts 2023 kl. 17.38.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 11:29:24 +0000, SteveW <st...@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 18/03/2023 11:17, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 18-Mar-23 8:39 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:
An electrician (who I don\'t believe) told me if there\'s too much power
on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra power. Is
this really true? Aren\'t there plenty of power stations they can just
turn down a bit? Take your foot off the gas so to speak?

I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install smart
meters into each home. And in the UK that comes from green tax.
Shouldn\'t that tax be being spent on making more green energy,
building new wind farms?

Coal fired power stations cannot change their output rapidly, and can be
willing to pay for the right to generate in preference to reducing output.

So the windfarm notion is not entirely implausible. However, wind
turbines use electronics to match the turbine output to the grid
frequency, and it seems unlikely that it\'s designed to operate in
reverse for the relatively rare occasions that that would be used.

On balance, then, I doubt that using wind turbines as fans is real.

That idea has probably come from the use of \"barring gear\". When not in
use, some wind turbines are electrically driven and turn slowly, to
prevent semi-permanent sagging of blades or shafts when left stationary
in one position.
Steam turbines on ships (now mostly diesels) engaged a \"turning gear\"
electric motor to slowly rotate things so a hot turbine shaft wouldn\'t
sag.

some jet engines require a minimum low power warm up period after standing
still for a while to let the shaft straighten before it\'s allowed full power

Steam ships used cheap fuel, basically street paving quality gunk,

The bunker fuel diesels run on isn\'t much better, but there are now rules on how
bad it can be and in many places close to the coast they need to run on fuel oil (diesel)

but
were so complex that it was hard to find crews to keep them running.
Diesels are much simpler.

and more efficient

Steam ships with triple expansion engines got pretty efficient before
they were phased out.

Sylvia.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

søndag den 19. marts 2023 kl. 03.19.33 UTC+1 skrev Sylvia Else:

On 19-Mar-23 4:01 am, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
lørdag den 18. marts 2023 kl. 17.38.33 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 11:29:24 +0000, SteveW <st...@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 18/03/2023 11:17, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 18-Mar-23 8:39 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:
An electrician (who I don\'t believe) told me if there\'s too much power
on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra power. Is
this really true? Aren\'t there plenty of power stations they can just
turn down a bit? Take your foot off the gas so to speak?

I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install smart
meters into each home. And in the UK that comes from green tax.
Shouldn\'t that tax be being spent on making more green energy,
building new wind farms?

Coal fired power stations cannot change their output rapidly, and can be
willing to pay for the right to generate in preference to reducing output.

So the windfarm notion is not entirely implausible. However, wind
turbines use electronics to match the turbine output to the grid
frequency, and it seems unlikely that it\'s designed to operate in
reverse for the relatively rare occasions that that would be used.

On balance, then, I doubt that using wind turbines as fans is real.

That idea has probably come from the use of \"barring gear\". When not in
use, some wind turbines are electrically driven and turn slowly, to
prevent semi-permanent sagging of blades or shafts when left stationary
in one position.
Steam turbines on ships (now mostly diesels) engaged a \"turning gear\"
electric motor to slowly rotate things so a hot turbine shaft wouldn\'t
sag.

some jet engines require a minimum low power warm up period after standing
still for a while to let the shaft straighten before it\'s allowed full power

Steam ships used cheap fuel, basically street paving quality gunk,

The bunker fuel diesels run on isn\'t much better, but there are now rules on how
bad it can be and in many places close to the coast they need to run on fuel oil (diesel)

but
were so complex that it was hard to find crews to keep them running.
Diesels are much simpler.

and more efficient


Steam ships with triple expansion engines got pretty efficient before
they were phased out.

afaict around 13% which is absolutely terrible compared to a 50% diesel

 

[rbowman]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 09:04:37 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

In which country is this once a month appearance by a meter reader?

He\'s a yank. So is Bowman and Cindy.

My electric bill varies monthly and there\'s a graphic of my consumption
versus the same month in the prior year. I never gave it thought but it\'s
some sort of remote reading. There are no little footprints in the snow
leading up to the meter.

I doubt they are using power-line communication so there must be someone
driving around to collect the data.

 

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 3/18/2023 10:53 PM, rbowman wrote:

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 09:04:37 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

In which country is this once a month appearance by a meter reader?

He\'s a yank. So is Bowman and Cindy.

My electric bill varies monthly and there\'s a graphic of my consumption
versus the same month in the prior year. I never gave it thought but it\'s
some sort of remote reading. There are no little footprints in the snow
leading up to the meter.

I doubt they are using power-line communication so there must be someone
driving around to collect the data.

In CT a car drove up the street and read the meters. Electric monthly,
water quarterly.
Here, it transmits to a spot in the community that has a power supply
and a couple of antenna. Electric use is transmitted daily.

 

[rbowman]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 18:12:49 +0000, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:

On 18/03/2023 17:00, Rod Speed wrote:
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote

And in the UK that comes from green tax.

Shouldn\'t that tax be being spent on making more green energy,
building new wind farms?

Shouldn\'t that tax be scrapped to make our bills cheaper.

It used to be spent on giving us all free CFL light bulbs.

And that is a completely insane thing to do, tax everyone, pump that
money thru the bureaucracy and staight back to precisely the same
people that it came from in the first place.

Only advantage is that in theory it forces people to have CFL light
bulbs which they would otherwise not bother with and might see some use
them given they are \'free\'

We were never actually stupid enough to have a green tax and our
electricity suppliers did hand out free CFL light bulbs. I ony ever
used a couple of the dozens I got given.

There are probably thousands of CFL\'s in their original boxes stored in
cupboards in houses in the UK that have NEVER been used!

I have some but it\'s because the electric company sent out LED
replacements before the original batch of CFSs burned out.

 

[Rod Speed]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 11:48:42 +1100, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On 18/03/2023 19:56, Rod Speed wrote:
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Ours are read 4 times a year and it takes a lot more than 30 seconds
to read.

Where I live it was more like once every two years.

Knock on the door
Our meter boxes are all on an outside wall of the house.


In the UK there is a mix, around my way outside for most newer
properties or often when houses have been converted to flats.
Along my road most houses have their electricity and gas meter inside
the house with no external meter box.

Smart meters are not compulsory and many people have refused the offer
to have them fitted. There has been quite a lot of adverse publicity
recently surrounding smart meters. With energy prices doubling many
hundreds of thousands are struggling paying for their energy. The energy
companies have been programming smart meters to become pre-payment
meters overnight for these people. This is not just more inconvenient
but a more expensive way of pay for energy - although the price
difference compared to us who pay by direct debit will end in July this
year.

There is also a mix of metered and un-metered water.

Mine was metered but the council, the operation who
supplys our water didnt bother to read the meters
essentially because the cost of the meter readers wasnt
warranted. But then the state govt forced them to read
the meters, essentially to discourage wasting water.

In general, new builds require a water meter but for older properties
the owner can request one which remains in place for subsequent owners.
Again generalising, if the number of people occupying the property is
less than the number of bedrooms in the property there is likely to be a
large saving in water and sewage charges based on the meter reading so
for many there is an incentive to request a water meter.

 

[Rod Speed]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 13:53:57 +1100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 09:04:37 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

In which country is this once a month appearance by a meter reader?

He\'s a yank. So is Bowman and Cindy.

My electric bill varies monthly and there\'s a graphic of my consumption
versus the same month in the prior year. I never gave it thought but it\'s
some sort of remote reading. There are no little footprints in the snow
leading up to the meter.

I doubt they are using power-line communication so there must be someone
driving around to collect the data.

Most smartmeters use the cellphone networks.

 

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 19 Mar 2023 00:48:42 +0000, alan_m
<junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On 18/03/2023 19:56, Rod Speed wrote:
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Ours are read 4 times a year and it takes a lot more than 30 seconds
to read.

Where I live it was more like once every two years.

Knock on the door

Our meter boxes are all on an outside wall of the house.


In the UK there is a mix, around my way outside for most newer
properties or often when houses have been converted to flats.
Along my road most houses have their electricity and gas meter inside
the house with no external meter box.

Smart meters are not compulsory and many people have refused the offer
to have them fitted. There has been quite a lot of adverse publicity
recently surrounding smart meters. With energy prices doubling many

There was, a few years ago, also a lot ofadverse publicity, but iirc it
was nonsense about radiation (even though the transmission is only for a
few seconds once a month, far less than loads of other things.) So in
many or all places they made smart meters optional but if you didnt\'
get one, they charge extra, to pay for the guy to come and read the
meter. I don\'t rmemeber any percentages.

Otherwise, billing and payment is the same in any given area. Maybe it
varies in different parts of the country but I can\'t imagine how.

hundreds of thousands are struggling paying for their energy. The energy
companies have been programming smart meters to become pre-payment
meters overnight for these people. This is not just more inconvenient
but a more expensive way of pay for energy - although the price
difference compared to us who pay by direct debit will end in July this
year.

There is also a mix of metered and un-metered water. In general, new
builds require a water meter but for older properties the owner can
request one which remains in place for subsequent owners. Again
generalising, if the number of people occupying the property is less
than the number of bedrooms in the property there is likely to be a
large saving in water and sewage charges based on the meter reading so
for many there is an incentive to request a water meter.

 

[rbowman]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 14:29:12 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 13:53:57 +1100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 09:04:37 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

In which country is this once a month appearance by a meter reader?

He\'s a yank. So is Bowman and Cindy.

My electric bill varies monthly and there\'s a graphic of my consumption
versus the same month in the prior year. I never gave it thought but
it\'s some sort of remote reading. There are no little footprints in the
snow leading up to the meter.

I doubt they are using power-line communication so there must be
someone driving around to collect the data.

Most smartmeters use the cellphone networks.

I don\'t think the meter is smart. It\'s definitely not digital.

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 10:54:05 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 09:04:37 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

In which country is this once a month appearance by a meter reader?

He\'s a yank. So is Bowman and Cindy.
My electric bill varies monthly and there\'s a graphic of my consumption
versus the same month in the prior year. I never gave it thought but it\'s
some sort of remote reading. There are no little footprints in the snow
leading up to the meter.

I doubt they are using power-line communication so there must be someone
driving around to collect the data.

My electric company provides readings by the hour. Around 5 pm each day, the previous day\'s readings are available in an email. I\'m supposed to be able to view that online, but it has quit working and the electric company won\'t fix it, or is unable to. To top it off, when I try to communicate with them by email, they reject my emails. When I try using the web site message facility to fix the email, it won\'t accept the information from the email bounce message, claiming it\'s a URL! I\'m left with trying to resolve all this crap over the phone.

Is it no wonder why I hate technology?

--

Rick C.

+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:24:48 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 11:48:42 +1100, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On 18/03/2023 19:56, Rod Speed wrote:
alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Ours are read 4 times a year and it takes a lot more than 30 seconds
to read.

Where I live it was more like once every two years.

Knock on the door
Our meter boxes are all on an outside wall of the house.


In the UK there is a mix, around my way outside for most newer
properties or often when houses have been converted to flats.
Along my road most houses have their electricity and gas meter inside
the house with no external meter box.

Smart meters are not compulsory and many people have refused the offer
to have them fitted. There has been quite a lot of adverse publicity
recently surrounding smart meters. With energy prices doubling many
hundreds of thousands are struggling paying for their energy. The energy
companies have been programming smart meters to become pre-payment
meters overnight for these people. This is not just more inconvenient
but a more expensive way of pay for energy - although the price
difference compared to us who pay by direct debit will end in July this
year.

There is also a mix of metered and un-metered water.
Mine was metered but the council, the operation who
supplys our water didnt bother to read the meters
essentially because the cost of the meter readers wasnt
warranted. But then the state govt forced them to read
the meters, essentially to discourage wasting water.
In general, new builds require a water meter but for older properties
the owner can request one which remains in place for subsequent owners.
Again generalising, if the number of people occupying the property is
less than the number of bedrooms in the property there is likely to be a
large saving in water and sewage charges based on the meter reading so
for many there is an incentive to request a water meter.

I guess I\'m lucky. I live somewhere that water just falls out of the sky. There\'s so much water, that they drilled a hole in my yard, and the water level sets just 10 feet below the surface. They call it a well.

Sometimes we have so much, it threatens to come right up to our doors.

How can there ever be water waste? We worry more about having too much water!

--

Rick C.

---- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[SteveW]

On 19/03/2023 00:48, alan_m wrote:

<Snip>

Smart meters are not compulsory and many people have refused the offer
to have them fitted. There has been quite a lot of adverse publicity
recently surrounding smart meters. With energy prices doubling many
hundreds of thousands are struggling paying for their energy. The energy
companies have been programming smart meters to become pre-payment
meters overnight for these people.  This is not just more inconvenient
but a more expensive way of pay for energy - although the price
difference compared to us who pay by direct debit will end in July this
year.

That still won\'t end the problem of those on pre-payment meters having
to meet their peak (winter) costs up-front, while those of us on monthly
Direct Debits can average the cost out over the whole year.

 

[SteveW]

On 19/03/2023 00:13, alan_m wrote:

On 18/03/2023 23:19, micky wrote:


It take a minute to cut the lead-sealed metal strip that holds on the
old meter, a minute to take off the 10\" metal ring that holds the meter
to the base, a minute to pull the meter (10 seconds, really), 2 minutes
to take a new meter out of its box, remove the plastic covers to the 3
big tabs, and insert the meter into the base, a minute to replace the
ring, and a minute to attach a new lead band.   That\'s 7 minutes.

My electric smart meter was installed with new tails and an isolation
switch. On the same visit a smart gas meter was installed with the
necessary purging and gas pressure/leak safety checks and the additional
checks to ensure all gas appliances were working satisfactory afterwards.

Mine had new tails too, despite their being nothing wrong with the old
ones. When the previous dumb meter was changed the previous year, they
added blue and brown identifiers to the ends of the existing grey
sheathed cables. Apparently that is no longer good enough and when they
later changed it to a Smart-meter, they had to change them to new blue
and brown sheathed cables.

My suppliers doesn\'t arrange to fit an isolator either - that\'s an extra
£130 if you want one!!!

 

[server]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 17:11:08 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

søndag den 19. marts 2023 kl. 00.19.28 UTC+1 skrev upsid...@downunder.com:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 08:49:35 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
bill....@ieee.org> wrote:

On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 2:31:38?AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 10:49:57 +0000, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk
wrote:
On 18/03/2023 09:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Shouldn\'t that tax be being spent on making more green energy, building
new wind farms?

Windmills will still be useless when there\'s no wind. Pity that there\'s no good way to store electricity.

None that John Larkin knows about.
Pumped hydroelectric storage has been popular for ages,


Pumped hydro requires two quite big lakes at quite close together with
a significant difference in height.Not all countries have such
conditions.

you can build one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taum_Sauk_Hydroelectric_Power_Station

That is a small toy, only 450 MW, 3600 MWh.

It will support only 100 - 200 wind turbines for 8 hours.

To fully back up all US wind turbines, 270 such dams would be required
In practice there is not a complete calm area all over the whole US at
once, so maybe 50 to 100 such dams are required that is 1-2 such dams
in each US state. However, this requires good high voltage lines
carrying power at least 1000 km into calm areas.